Playing with music

[FidlinBows]

I have a small group of lady fiddle players that meet at my house. They are tied to their Ipads and sheet music. Some say they have to have it.

I have nothing against music…well I guess I do. 1) have to sit and wait while they find the tune. 2) leads to arguments about whether someone played the right note or is playing a different version of the tune. 3) the music to be sounds too uniform, no expression, whatever!

I want a more free, not perfect, sound. I would love for them to turn it loose, look like they are having fun.

Am I wrong? Beating a horse that has never galloped in it’s life? Is there anything to be done?

[Roland White]

Hi FiddinBows,

Your situation is not unique and I would say I see more music and learning tools now at group sessions than I ever have. I think the reason for this is there are more former classical players out there starting to learn Trad music for the informal nature, and the urge to play with others in sessions and jams. Unfortunately they have only learned to play with the dots, not by ear.

I think the immediate solution is to encourage them to play only the tunes they can play without music so they can
experience the freedom of just playing the music by ear and memory. Do this a few times per session and keep adding the tunes in that you know they can play without music . Slowly most will enjoy this more and more as they realize they can play without notes. Sooner or later you can enjoy the whole session playing without the music.

One objection is that no one will play the tune identical but thats what makes group playing fun when you listen to the others for subtle variations and new licks. Another idea is to find some players that do play by ear and either go to their session or start a new one with a No Sheet Music Rule. I also encourage them to memorize the tunes after they learn it don’t use the notes after that, but start learning to play by ear. Good luck, keep it fun, find new players, and fiddle on. Best regards, Roland

[Casey Willis]

Thanks for that response, Roland. I like the idea of encouraging folks to try a song by ear that they are very comfortable with; just to see how it goes.

Hi, FidlinBows. I understand the issue. I can tell you that for some folks, sheet music is really helpful. Sheet music is a great way to capture an idea and share it with others…It can also lead to things like a lack of creativity, expression, feel, improvisation, etc. It’s a double-edged sword, for sure. In my mind, sheet music is simply flawed metadata pertaining to aural music. And the point of music is to evoke emotion in the listener/player…and most times, sheet music can actually hinder this process.

The only advice I could offer is to keep in mind that what works for you may not work for others (and the other way round). If folks are open to trying a tune or two without sheet music, that might be a start. But my experience leads me to believe that there are some players who just aren’t able to break away from sheet music…

I do generally reference a chord chart when I play out, but that’s just a guide for me to be able to improv over.

Hopefully that helps…

C

[sabrina]

Hi there,

Just to add my “piece of salt” in the debate : from my (little) experience in music, i can tell you that it’s really hard to play by ear when you started music (from scratch) as an adult.

Most of people start at an early age and, of course, it’s the best but as more and more adults get involved in instrument’s learning, i personnaly think that the best way to get together is to let everyone do what it’s best for himself (ear, sheet, whatever…).

In other words : tolerance and patience. Roland, you talked about classical learners who want to play fiddle. I think that those people have a chance that others didn’t have : they know music, they know musical theory…. A real chance that not everybody has.

Now, as for myself, i can tell that i need sheet at the beginning when i learn a new tune and, then, when i’m more comfortable with the notes, i try to add my own things in it.

Early in the year, i considered to go to slow session but it’s 65 mile from my place and i would have to go by train, sleep at my brother’s place and go back home the next day….a lot of energy for one hour of playing…..
But, i was willing to do that : the only thing is that, since i can’t really play by ear right now, i wanted to bring sheet music in order to not spend the evening just listening given the travel and the time…..
However….everybody is playing without sheets : or, they try to…most of them can’t really play actually.

Conclusion : no slow session for me because they want to do like “purists”, there is “codes” in Trad’ music : that’s the way it is. But, once again ,things change and with people learning at an advanced age, you have to achieve a balance so everyone in the group can feel be a part of this group.

Just my opinion of course.

Kind regards,
S.

[Andrea_S]

Love this thread – I’ve struggled with this too. I learned classical violin as a child, but now I really want to play “fiddle”, and I firmly believe you need to learn tunes by ear to play fiddle. I actually think the tune memory ends up in a different part of your brain (auditory centres, not visual) when you learn by ear. I spent years and years getting no-where with fiddle, trying to learn from sheet music. Past two years I’ve been in a group where sheet music is not allowed, and my playing has taken off. It’s a huge learning curve to learn to play by ear (and watching fingers really helps, of course) but it’s really worth it. Convincing other adults of that is not easy though – good luck!

[Andrea_S]

Another thought – I’ve found that having good software that slows down and loops audio files is absolutely crucial to learning by ear. I use Transcribe, which is amazing, but there are lots of good ones out there. I also use Intonia for practicing intonation – it gives you a visual of whether you are in tune as you play.

[Casey Willis]

Good points, both, Andrea. Thanks.

[Roland White]

Hi All…..Thanks for chiming in on this topic. It sounds like we all have experience with this situation. I would just add that from my perspective I really support any and all methods to learn music. Whatever tool works for you is the one to use.

Along with that it never hurts to expand your horizons and for note readers that would be trying to play by ear and for those ear folks give a try to some written music and see how that goes. You will appreciate each more after you try a method your’e not familiar with.

Last whoever you play with always take the HIGH ROAD and try not to criticize anyone as musicians especially newer ones and experience ones too, are overly sensitive to their skills and ability. I’ve seen folks hurt to the core by insensitive remarks so lets be encouraging to all and keep the music alive. Best Roland

[Csims]

Hi everyone! I am (was) one of those players who needed sheet music and often because I could read music, I was asked to play the harmony parts. Really, I never learned the original melodies and when I wanted to join in, by the time I searched through my music, the tune was over. The group I played with would want me to learn to play 20 tunes and I found it overwhelming.

So, I found a fiddle teacher and made myself a goal of learning some of the basic tunes, one at a time. I think I learned about 15 tunes that year. This year since my teacher (Julie Fitzgerald) was performing all over and unavailable to teach, I signed up for this website, thanks to Patti! I have learned many of her tunes and I am now going to many jams. At first I didn’t know many tunes at the jams, but I made a goal of picking 2 tunes and learning them each time I went to a jam/square dance. I made a bucket list of tunes I wanted to learn and started choosing the easiest ones (mostly waltzes at first) Now I am able to play most of the tunes, still have lots more to learn. Loving being “sheet music free” and feel so liberated. I am finding now that I am better able to join in on some parts of tunes I don’t yet know, by ear.

Even my friends are commenting on how much I have improved and are amazed at the number of tunes I have learned this year. It gets easier, you just have to try. Now, as long as I can hum a tune, I can figure it out by ear. It does take a leap of faith to put yourself out there, but has been well worth it for me! Loving my musical journey and the support I have been given.

Hope this helps by letting people know it will come together and get easier. You just have to do it!

Carol

[Andrea_S]

That’s really inspiring, Carol. Thanks for sharing your story.

Andrea

[Casey Willis]

Thanks much for sharing your experience and perspective, Carol! And it’s awesome to hear that you are finding the site helpful..cheers to up!!

C

[Roland White]

HI CSims,

Thanks so much for posting your story. I think this will inspire many fellow fiddlers who have faced that same situation. And you’re living proof that you can go from page to ear with a positive experience. What could be more inspiring than to hear of your success.

Really glad to hear your loving FV where you have all the learning tools you need for ear & written music with backup tracks for practice. This site is perfect for all and hopefully with all the excellent comments from members you Fiddle Video fiddlers will be inspired to try a different approach to learning. Fiddle on everyone, Best Roland

[NewFiddler]

I am new to playing completely by ear and have mixed feelings about the experience. It can be fun but also frustrating. I do enjoy the freedom but at the same time even if I learn a tune completely from sheet music I am able to mix it up and play around with it afterward and experience that freedom anyway. In my case, I would rather some of the advanced licks or double stops be written out as options and then learn to put them together in my own way. It’s quite tedious sometimes to rewind over and over again to try to “get” something that I could instantly pick up if I could read it. Makes me want to explode sometimes! 🙂 I would really appreciate a separate sheet music file that writes out some of the advanced licks as excerpts and options- I wouldn’t need the whole song written out again (we’ve go the basic version for that). Neither method (sheet music or by ear) is the “right” one right 🙂 It’s music! Created to be enjoyed… I think having both methods available would be nice and some advanced sheet music would make it more enjoyable for me. Thanks for listening!

[Roland White]

HI New Fiddler,

This is a great thread from lots of folks talking about learning by ear. I think overall any approach to learning that works for you is one that you should use. I also think being open to learning by any means necessary is the spirit of the fiddler and if the written music helps then by all means use it.

I would like to add an important aspect and that is most great musicians encourage the ear method as they will claim that even the best transcribers can’t always get across the lick that was intended. That being said listening to all the different licks on a tune you can hear will expand your experience the quickest and in the process may give you some insights to intricate transcriptions, where only listening can give you the idea of the real sound of the lick.

Most important is to have fun and use all the methods you need in learning to help you learn quicker. After learning a lot of fiddle tunes I found that my ear just picks up notes and combinations better because i listen closer. So have fun keep fiddling. Roland

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Roland White.

[Casey Willis]

Good comments, Roland. Thx.

Hi NewFiddler – I would echo the idea that although many of the licks could be written out, there is a downside to doing so. You can’t notate groove, bow swells, vibrato, feel, etc… And the groove cannot be ignored…it is truly more important than the licks you play.

We had several requests a while back for advanced sheet music. After discussing that option with the other instructors on the site, the consensus was that any benefits were outweighed by the downsides of having advanced licks written out.

For folks who are great at reading music, I know that this seems counter intuitive. It would be much easier for some to have the licks written out…but again, you can’t write out groove/feel/touch. These are the key elements to hear directly from a master player…we really encourage folks to learn the tunes by walking through each video along with the teacher.

Being able to loop sections of the video will hopefully take some of the frustration out. Have you tried this feature? That way, you don’t have to rewind anything…the video simply loops over whatever section you are working on.

I would also say that as you spend more time having to work out these licks without the crutch of sheet music, you will most definitely become a more versatile player. Improvisation will also become way easier. My recommendation is that if you’d like to play with the feel of the various instructors who’s music brought you to this site…do as they did and learn by ear!!

Hopefully that helps!!

C

[Pat Willey]

Thanks, Casey. I quit relying on sheet music about two years ago. Without it, I find it much easier to learn a tune. I do admit I look at printed noted now and then, but it is not the crutch it used to be (and no, I don’t (can’t) play every note you play). At an oldtime fiddle workshop a few weeks ago, the instructor stated that you really can’t ‘make music’ if you are reading notes. I think that is what you were inferring.

The workshop instructor also disparaged the shoulder rest, noting he never saw an oldtime fiddler with one. He only placed his chin on the rest when he had to reposition his left hand, and he maintained his music sounded better without it. I am trying that now, as I think upper back pain that develops after practicing a while is caused by my excessive chin pressure. Without the shoulder rest, I cannot push so hard on the chin rest, and my back strain has decreased. Maybe there is a reason that shoulder rests don’t fit in older violin cases. I am sure that for music styles other than oldtime, the shoulder rest may be more appropriate (when playing in higher positions or for vibrato).

[Casey Willis]

Hi, Pat. Yeah…there are definitely benefits to playing by ear…

As far as a shoulder rest goes, I used to play without one. But once I switched, I found that I had less neck pain and also way more sound coming from my instrument. That’s one of the reasons I recommend the Wolfe Forte Segundo…it really opens up the sound of your instrument. But then again, if using a shoulder rest is causing your back to take more strain, then avoid one!!

c

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